Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert. I'm here with Bernie Pawlik. Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver. Vancouver's best auto service experience, and today we're talking diesels. How you doing Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: So today's guest is a 2015, pretty new, Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: So this vehicle came to our shop with a warning light on the dash saying the vehicle would not start because the DEF system needed servicing. So the owner, the vehicle was running, he had it at the dealer. They did some work, wasn't overly happy with what they suggested him to do, so he brought it to us. And it was his last drive because after he shut the key off, the vehicle wouldn't start again.
Mark: Wow. So what's a DEF system?
Bernie: It's a diesel exhaust fluid system. So there's an extra blue fluid you add to a tank. If anything goes wrong with the system, the vehicle will run for a certain amount of time with warning messages saying vehicle, you know, you'll get like 50 more starts. So you have to take it in to get repaired and eventually the vehicle just won't start. So it was at that stage.
Mark: This is a pollution control, supposedly pollution control system?
Bernie: Exactly, exactly. If the vehicle, you know, is, is at a point where it's gonna exceed the emission requirements as designed, then it'll shut everything off if you don't fix it. You do get fair warning.
There's the warning. Yeah. Engine will not start service. Before this warning comes on, it'll say engine will not start, you have 50 more starts or something like that. This isn't just unique to Dodge, this is on any diesel vehicle, you know, so the modern, high level emission systems.
Mark: And so do you just fill up the fluid and you're good to go?
Bernie: No you would think you would be, and if you run outta fluid, this message will come up. But no, it's not about the fluid, it monitors the whole system and what it's monitoring is how effective are the emissions at the end of the tailpipe. There are a number of sensors in the exhaust system and it'll measure the NOx emission.
And at the very end, and yeah, this is a good example, those two holes on the left. There are NOx sensors in those two holes, and, if the readings aren't correct at the end, at the end of that pipe, then it'll basically just go into a fault mode. So, you know, the fluid can be full, it can be spraying, but if the catalysts aren't working properly or something's wrong, sensors are wrong, it'll cause this issue to happen.
Mark: Walk us through, what did you guys do?
Bernie: Well, there is a procedure where you can actually start the vehicle. It's very finicky, but we can actually energize the starter with two people and get the vehicle to start. You won't want to do this if you own this vehicle. I mean, you could if you need to get it going, but you can't do it on an ongoing basis because you have to have two people to do it. Anyways, we got the vehicle started, road tested it. Monitored data, retrieved codes. And we let the customer know this is gonna be a step-by-step procedure.
First step we did was we replaced those sensors at the back of the SCR, and there's also one after the DPF, which is a diesel particulate filter, which is located further upstream in the exhaust. We replaced those three sensors. None of them are cheap, they're very expensive, and they're not just a sensor, like a traditional oxygen sensor, but they go into like a little computerized box and that hooks up to the vehicle computer. So there's a lot of complexity.
Anyways, we replaced those sensors. Road tested the vehicle. The readings were, the readings we're getting on the scan tool were slightly better, but still not enough to actually reset the vehicle. So we went to phase two and, and basically that was the recommendations we'd had from some expert help that we have was you're probably gonna have to replace the DPF, the SCR, and there's probably some emission issues coming from the engine, like the EGR valve or the intake's plugged.
So we told the owner, Hey, you're looking at a lot of money to fix this. Do you want us to do this? He said, yep, go ahead and do it. I want everything to work properly. So we so from that we end up going to the intake system.
Pulled the intake manifold off. This is a common problem on these. We've done other podcasts on them, full of carbon deposits. The intake manifold we replace. The intake runners won't work sometimes. The carbon deposits just block the flow of air and reduce the effectiveness of the engine. So this gets replaced as a unit, which we did.
This is a good closeup of the intake ports.
Mark: And these are actually valves here that are supposed to twist back and forth.
Bernie: Yeah. They're butterfly valves. They rotate, so they vary the airflow through the intake manifold for performance issues. A lot of times when these go bad, there'll be trouble codes stored for a specific issue with these runners. That wasn't happening on this vehicle, but just based on past experience and what had been done on this vehicle, we figured this was a good thing to investigate, and repair. And sure enough it was a good time to do it.
Mark: And this is a plastic manifold?
Bernie: It's a plastic manifold, yeah.
Mark: On a diesel.
Bernie: On a diesel, yeah.
Mark: Pardon my incredulous. Incred. Incred. Yeah. I'm amazed. What the heck is going on?
Bernie: You know, there's so much plastic stuff. Even a Ford. 6.7 litre diesel has a plastic lower oil pan. This isn't like a little dinky truck. This is like a robust truck, you know, that you'll find in an, in an F550. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
Anyways, onto more carbon deposits. This is the EGR pipe which goes into the intake manifold. So the reason there's so much carbon is the vehicle recirculates exhaust gas into the intake system to reduce the NOx emissions. And of course there's a lot of, you know, there's soot and diesel and eventually it accumulates.
Mark: And NOx is?
Bernie: Oxides and nitrogen. It's a pretty harsh pollutant. Diesels are actually, even stinky old diesels that have, you know, particles blowing out, are actually in some ways lower emissions than lower harmful pollutants than gasoline engines. Except NOx. They're really bad for NOx. And of course the particulates are not good. They're very fine particles.
Mark: Cancer causing.
Bernie: Yeah, cancer causing, get into lungs. So they're not good.
Mark: So this is prior, this is after you guys cleaned it.
Bernie: Yeah, we cleaned it. Yeah. So you can see like, just a profound difference.
Mark: This doesn't work worth beans.
Bernie: No.
Mark: This is gonna work properly.
Bernie: Exactly. And for quite a long time. So those are two things we replaced. Very expensive job in and of itself. I'm not gonna talk about the actual dollars, but expensive job in and of itself. Then of course we did that, road tested the vehicle, still wouldn't reset the monitor. Replaced the diesel particulate filter, which is the next item upstream in the exhaust system. Replaced that. That didn't fix it.
And we were told that often is a very common problem and causes this kind of issue to happen. Fixed that. Still not resetting the system. So we replaced the SCR, which is that part that we were looking at earlier. That's the catalyst further downstream of the system. All the final exhaust monitoring takes place. That part, interestingly enough is not available new. We could only get a good used one, which was hard to find. But new, it's on a three month back order. Now, I'm not sure what everyone else is doing with a truck like this where they won't start anymore, but there's probably a lot of dead three litre Chrysler diesel trucks sitting around waiting for parts, which I don't understand why they're not available.
But nonetheless, we managed to find a good used one, put it in. This is the final piece and part of the whole system, road tested it. When we verified on our scan tool, all the numbers were reading properly, the system is working great. The computer still wouldn't reset. So as one last blow, we had to replace the computer, which we were told might happen.
Mark: Oh my God.
Bernie: So the powertrain controlled computer, interestingly enough, was on a one month back order. So we got a used one and we programmed it and it worked. And at the end of the day, the vehicle worked.
Mark: So this is quite a long involved process?
Bernie: Yeah, I can't remember how long it's been at our shop. At least six weeks, maybe two months. So we've got basically, sensors intake manifold, DPF, SCR, computer. Five major items.
Mark: On a 2015. What do you speculate as to the cause of this much carbon and so many issues?
Bernie: Well, the carbon deposits, they happen naturally on diesels like this, but again, it's probably 125 Ks isn't that much on a 10-year-old vehicle, so I'm not gonna do the math in my head, but you know, there's probably a lot of low speed driving involved. If you get out on the highway and burn it and get it really hot, that'll help it out and you won't get these issues that that happen so often.
But I said to the owner, what happened? Like, did you just keep driving this thing till the warning lights came on? He said, no. What happened is I took it to the dealer because there was a recall on something. They re-flash the vehicle computer. He goes, when I left that warning message was on.
Mark: Wow.
Bernie: I think there's probably some underlying issues before that happened. But nonetheless, it's rather shocking to have a free recall done and then have your vehicle turn into a useless, highly expensive repair job.
Mark: Wow. If you're looking for service for your diesel vehicle and honest advice about whether you should buy a diesel based on how you use the vehicle, the guys to see in Vancouver are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them online on their website, pawlikautomotive.com. You can book your appointment right there, or you can call them at (604) 327-7112. You have to book ahead, they're always busy. And please, before you buy a vehicle, get it inspected. Find out if it's a lemon or not. Save yourself some serious amounts of heartache. Get it inspected. It's well worth the investment. I speak from hard experience and the guys to see in Vancouver are Pawlik Automotive. Thanks so much for watching and listening. Thanks Bernie.
Bernie: Thank you, Mark. Thanks for watching.
