Mark: Hi, it's Mark from Top Local producer of the Pawlik Automotive podcast and video series. And we're here with Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver. Vancouver's best auto service experience. 22 time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver. It keeps going up Bernie, what's going on? How are you doing, Bernie?
Bernie: That's good. Well, people keep voting for us in various magazines around Vancouver. So thank you.
Mark: We'll take it.
Bernie: We will take it. Absolutely. Yes I like it. The good news about this is it will never go down. It's only a credit going forward. So that's a good thing.
Mark: Beauty. So 2012 Range Rover is, today's victim, Evo Q, Evoque maintenance service. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: Yeah so we had a new client come to our shop with this 2012 Evoque. It was due for maintenance. He had a couple of concerns with the check engine light would come on occasionally, but other than that, just a basic maintenance service.
Mark: And how many kilometres were on this vehicle?
Bernie: This vehicle had a hundred and 48,000 kilometres. So, you know, fairly, on in life for sure. I don't know what to say, middle-aged. It's hard to know with cars. Some people think 148Ks is over the hill, but I think, you know, it's not too far gone.
This is a picture of our nice looking Evoque.
Pretty cool, stylish vehicle. When I got the thing in the shop, it's a 2012, this is the first model year of this vehicle and you go wow. It seems like they were just yesterday, it was a brand new car and kind of makes me realize how life in the world just keeps on going, you know? Anyways, so yeah, 2012. So this is now an eight year old vehicle.
Mark: And what services were due at this time?
Bernie: So there's a few filters that are due, an oil change of course, and then there's, it depends on which maintenance schedule you follow, there's a number of some other items. And I talked with the owner cause he just recently bought the vehicle, we're unsure of, you know, what the maintenance history was on it.
So there's basically two maintenance schedules that one can follow. And depending on which one you follow, determines some of the other items, like whether to change transmission fluid, differential fluids, and so on.
Mark: So why are there different maintenance schedules? And is that something that's common? We've never talked about that before.
Bernie: Yeah there are. Every manufacturer has different maintenance schedules for vehicles, depending on usage. So most of us think that we just have the regular maintenance schedule but in fact, most of us actually have the heavy duty or heavy use schedule.
The reason why some of the, some of the differentiating points for the heavy usage schedule are frequent short trips which many of us do. Then there's towing, driving in extremely hot or cold weather. Those are other issues. But that frequent short trip thing is what many people fail to look at and, puts us, I say us, I mean, most people who drive in the heavy maintenance or the severe usage category.
So on this particular vehicle, so for severe usage, the transmission fluid, drivetrain fluids, it's recommended those are replaced every five years as opposed to 10. In this case, the owner didn't want to do that. Fine. That's their thing. And the fluids, we did look at, they seemed to be in still, you know, fairly good colour, you know, not discoloured. Which doesn't always indicate the fluids are bad, but it is an indicator anyway, so you know, for the time being, we'll wait for a couple more years and then we'll do those fluids.
Mark: And were there any other issues with this vehicle?
Bernie: Found a minor oil leak. Other than that the vehicle is actually in pretty good shape. And that of course, I did mention the check engine light was a concern for the owner. We did, as part of the service we do as vehicles scan, record the codes, clear them, and we'd just see what comes up.
But, there was nothing major, you know, in terms of the codes we found. And it's interesting with a lot of these European vehicles, when we do a full code scan, sometimes we'll get up to it like a hundred trouble codes. There was actually 20 in the engine module, but a lot of them are like, you know, little communication error between one computer and another. There's sometimes if a battery's weak, it'll set off a whole number of you know, low voltage in this module. So sometimes you'll get a number of these codes. So we clear them. A lot of times, if you, if you re inspect it or re test it in a week, you'll find this probably like none or maybe one, you know, of some sort. But I, you know, the, the key thing is if everything's working fine, sometimes I find these codes are just, it's good information, but it can be, you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of trying to fix this stuff.
Mark: So no other issues basically, once you looked at the trouble codes?
Bernie: Yeah, it's fine. You know, if the check engine light comes back on and the owner did say that it would sometimes came back on and off, then we're going to need to have it back in for diagnosis. But having cleared away all those superfluous codes, we'll have a better idea of what's actually going on with the vehicle.
Mark: And how reliable are a Range Rover Evoques?
Bernie: They seem to be pretty reliable so far. I'd say so far I mean, they've been around for eight years. It's not the most common vehicle, so we don't see a ton of them on our shop, but so far there doesn't seem to be too many problems with them.
These things use a two litre Ford EcoBoost engine. So that doesn't sound so fancy, you know, compared to Range Rover, but Ford owned Land Rover and Jaguar for a long time and use their technology. And I think you know, in a lot of ways made them much better vehicles. Put them kind of mainstream and where Jaguar was, you know, running out of money when it was the standalone company. Ford put a lot of money in and their technology and really improved these vehicles overall. So this is a two litre, a turbo engine, it's in the EcoBoost family, which you'll find in a lot of other Ford products. So if you want to, if you want the Range Rover Evoque feel for less money, you can probably find a Ford product, but I won't be as nicely built and as the Range Rover and have the fancy features and luxuriousness. It's a really cool vehicle. I mean I always thought, like right from the beginning, the styling is unique and it's a nice size vehicle. You know, and with that engine, it's fairly economical considering the size of the vehicle.
Mark: So there you go. If you're looking for service for your Range Rover product in Vancouver, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive, you can reach them at (604) 327-7112 to book your appointment in Vancouver. So you have to call and book ahead. They're always busy. Or check out the website, pawlikautomotive.com, hundreds, literally hundreds of videos and articles about maintaining all kinds of cars and problems as well. Thank you for watching the YouTube channel Pawlik Auto Repair, hundreds of videos on there. And of course, thank you for watching and listening to the podcast. We really appreciate it. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark. Thanks for watching.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark from Top Local. We're here with Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and that's Vancouver's best auto service experience. 21 time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver as voted by their customers. And we're talking cars. How are you doing Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: So 2014 Range Rover Sport Supercharged. We're talking about another one of these with timing chain issues. What was happening with this vehicle?
Bernie: Yeah, so this vehicle came to our shop with some noises coming from the front of the engine. We did a diagnostic on it, found two issues. These are the two common issues. You can see it in our other podcasts and videos that the timing chain was rattling. And the supercharger nose cone was also making a lot of noise.
Mark: So when we talked about this before, you talked about how the timing chain failure was due to, on earlier versions of this vehicle, due to a badly designed tensioner, chain tensioner. So why is the newer model kind of having the same issue?
Bernie: Well, that's a good question. You know, initially, in the 2010 to 2012 model, they used, they used the timing chain tension, had a very small diameter plunger on it. I don't have a picture here, but if you look at our previous video, you'll see a picture of it compared to the newer design. And they redesigned that in 2013 and I figured, okay, we won't see any more of those that problem is solved. But we've started to see some 2013’s this one's a 2014 with timing chains rattling. And so there's another flaw in the design, which we'll show in a picture in a few minutes, but I think what's happened is they, they basically, the actual arm of the timing chain tensioner that the piece of pushes against the chain is actually made of aluminum. So it, it's not robust enough to handle the constant pressure that's being pushed on it. And the replacement parts have a metal, little metal piece, like a steel piece inserted. And that's a much more durable item. So why they didn't go straight to that, I don't know why but you know, I think that's what's part of what's causing it to wear out.
Mark: Now, we've talked about this a little bit in the how the chain itself is different than some other makes timing chain. Is that part of the problem?
Bernie: I think so. So interestingly enough, we've not yet done a timing chain on a non supercharged model. So I think the timing chain on this vehicle is just not robust enough to actually handle the power of the supercharged engine. If you've ever driven a supercharged engine, I mean, they have, the acceleration is, it's just instantaneous. So I mean, the engine is speeding up, you know, twice as fast as a non supercharged model. So, I mean, that's a lot of strain on an engine. It needs to be built, I think, far more robustly than they do. Mercedes, for instance, uses a double roller timing chain for most of their items, and we'll show some pictures in a second. You'll see the difference. But we, we've never changed the timing chain on a Mercedes supercharged or regular. They just, you know, they'd been using it for decades and they never wear out. So this is kind of, you know, pretty poor, but let's just get into some pictures right now.
So, here's a picture of our old tensioner and the actual tension arm that pushes against the timing chain. In this view the red arrows just point to the contact point. So there's nothing really, I mean, you can see a bit of gritty, you know wear here, but that's not really, it's a steel plunger. That's really, nothing's going to do nothing. But in here, there's a lot of wear in this particular surface, and I don't have a picture of the new item, but the new part has an actual steel piece in here, which is much tougher and it be able to withstand more abuse. So, the replacement parts work much better. Here's a side view. So this is how everything goes together. So this little plastic plate here rubs against the timing chain. This tensioner, which has a spring inside plus oil pressure pushing on it, keeps the timing chain tight. And of course, these things can fail. They do, you know, they can't hold their oil pressure property. So there might be some issues with that as well, but at least in the case of this engine that, you know, it's not that old of a vehicle, it's not likely going to have occurred at this point in time.
Mark: And the reason for a tensioner on the timing chain is due to wear and stretching in the chain?
Bernie: Exactly. Now, so these chains, so this is an overhead camshaft engine, and I don't have a picture of the whole length of the chain, but these chains are very long. They're probably, I'm going to guess three feet long if you actually cut the chain apart, it's probably a three foot long chain. So it runs from the crankshaft over two cam shafts. So there's two gears on the cam shafts, and then it goes back down to the crankshaft. And so there's a lot of length and slop, and so everything is calculated, the chain's got to be this long and the tensioner is going to take up this much tension.
If you look at this plunger here, you can actually see a sort of, you know, darker area and then a shiny spot. The shiny area is the part that's actually, like the dark part is the only part that would have actually been sticking out in the engine. You know, when the engine was running. So there's a lot of room to deal with a chain as it wears, to keep the chain tight. Also, of course, these plastic guides are a weak spot. And other models of cars, we see these guides breaking. You know, this isn't, a timing chain failure isn't a Range Rover only thing. It happens in other vehicles, but, and this is where, you know, changing oil is so critical in a lot of these modern engines. You've got your tensioners here, you know, these guides need the right kind of oil. There are plastic pieces that you know that, as long as the oil is correct, they'll last a long time, but they will wear over time. That answer your question?
Bernie: Perfect. Okay, so here's a picture of the timing chain. So this is a single roller chain. I don't have a, you know, this is a head of a Phillips screw on one of our benches. So it kind of gives you a reference that this chain is only probably a quarter inch wide, it's really pretty minimal in size. So this, you know, this to me is probably one of the biggest flaws of this engine is this chain is just not big enough to withstand. A double roller chain and I'll show you a picture in a second. Basically it's like two chains sandwich together. So it has this section plus another one here and that runs on a gear that has again, two gears. So it kind of spreads the force out over a a wider area. So here's a picture, this is a product photo of a double roller timing chain. This is a short one that you'd probably find in a push rod style V eight engine. Not the Land Rover because the Land Rover one is triple the length of this one. But you can see here that there's one section for a gear tooth and then another section. So again, the force is spread out over a much wider area. This these last much longer. So this is what I believe they should have done in the first place, and we wouldn't be here, but they all say it's kind of cynical, but thank you Land Rover, because it gives us work or thank you Ford Motor Company.
Mark: And what about the supercharger nose cones? Since this was also replaced and noisy, I guess.
Bernie: So this is another issue with this engine and the supercharger nose cone, I mean, the nose cone is basically the piece that attaches the drive belt to, there's some bearings, and then that actually attaches to the actual supercharger itself. So in the nose cone, there's a coupler. And the coupler's, what wears out. And I don't have a picture here, but if you look at some of our previous videos and podcasts, you'll be able to have a look at a picture of what that piece looks like. We have pictures there. But basically that coupler wears out and causes a rattling sound as the belt moves and the engine revs up.
Mark: So isn't there a simpler alternative than replacing the entire nose cone? Couldn't you just change the coupler?
Bernie: I wish that Land Rover offered a coupler because I think that that's really all it goes wrong. The actual bearings in the nose cone don't wear out, it's an expensive part. Although fortunately for the 2014, the price had dropped a few, a couple of hundred dollars over the previous model years, which was nice to see. But, you know, like yeah, we're chucking away a whole bunch of good stuff. But, unfortunately the coupler only comes with the whole nose cone. They really should sell it separately because nothing else really wears. The other pieces that the coupler attaches to are just steel pins, and they don't seem to wear it all. But the coupler is basically there to dampen the force of the supercharger, and I think, it's supposed to quiet down the operation of the unit. But unfortunately it's just not built robust enough to last a long time. So this is another sort of, you know, failure of this piece.
So there are after market couplers available, and we actually did do a timing chain on one vehicle where someone had put one in. But I don't really trust it. I mean, there's a reason why they design it like they do. And you know, for us, we don't want to put a part in that's going to cause some kind of other failure or other issue, you know, there's liability in certain things. So for us it's just better to replace it with the known good factory part. Although, you know, again, it will probably not last as long as it should. There's no redesign on that, by the way. If that was a question. Why don't they redesign it? They haven't, it's basically the same piece that comes.
Mark: And how many kilometres were on this vehicle?
Bernie: Yeah, not a lot. This vehicle only had just over 60,000 kilometres, you know, which is, what miles, like 40, 35, 40,000 miles. So really, I mean, way too new for something like this to happen, but out of warranty, unfortunately and you know, the problems there. So it's surprising, you know, we do a lot of these where it'll, most of them don't even hit a 100,000 kilometres or 60,000 miles before that, before this issue occurs. So it's a, you know, it happens at a pretty young age.
Mark: And how is the Range Rover after all these repairs?
Bernie: Oh, it was good. Sounded awesome. You know, nice and quiet, ran really well. The other thing I didn't mention is, you know, when this owner of this vehicle brought it in a couple of weeks ago, you know to diagnose the noise. And by the time he decided to have it fixed, the engine was already starting to run really rough. There was a check engine light on for a number of different trouble codes related to valve timing and things. So the timing chains, like there was so much play and slack, it was a good thing he had them done when he did because had he driven it much longer, something might've skipped a tooth and broken something. And at that point you, you know, risk severe engine damage. So when these things start rattling, you got to fix them.
Mark: Any final thoughts about Range Rover and reliability?
Bernie: Well, you know, as we've done a couple of podcasts on this particular issue, I'd say, you know, if you're looking to buy one of these vehicles, especially the supercharged model, find out the repair history. You know, it'll make a big difference as to whether this timing chain has been done or the supercharger nose cone because, it's a problem. It'll happen. Like a Subaru head gasket is guaranteed to happen at some point in time. I should say the timing belt, the older Subaru, and we call them older Subaru's now, but you know, there's certain years.
So this is, to me, what I'm seeing is this is a guaranteed issue that's going to happen. So, you know, do your research, find out whether it's been done or not, and if it hasn't been, if you can negotiate some money off the price of the vehicle, if you're buying it used, it's a good idea because you will be faced with the repair. And it's in the five to $10,000 range and closer to the 10 side, if you need to do both of these pieces. So that's a lot of money to fork out.
Mark: So there you go. If you're looking for service for your Range Rover in Vancouver, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive. You can call them at (604) 327-7112 to book your appointment in Vancouver or check out the website, pawlikautomotive.com all makes and models and types of repairs over 600 vehicles, over the years now. Check out the YouTube channel, Pawlik Auto Repair. Again, hundreds of videos, and if you like what you're listening to or watching, give us a like on iTunes or Spotify, wherever you happen to be listening to this or watching and we appreciate it. Thanks, Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark. Thanks for watching.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark from Top Local. We're here with Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver. Vancouver's best auto service experience. 21 time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver as voted by their customers. And today we're revisiting an old tried and true topic, a Range Rover Sport coolant leak repair. What was going on with this Range Rover Bernie?
Bernie: Well, it had a coolant leak, it's a Range Rover.
Mark: Okay, thank you. And what did you find this time?
Bernie: We've talked about this a few times, I'm trying to put a little humour into it. Maybe not such a fun subject. But anyways, what we found is there was a coolant leak coming from the engine. There's a plastic coolant pipe that from the upper radiator hose thermostat area that goes down under the intake manifold in that pipe, plastic pipe had cracked.
Mark: Plastic, plastic. What was the, what was the mileage on this vehicle?
Bernie: Yeah, really, really low mileage. Only 63,000 kilometres. So, I mean, you know, to me that's just a barely broken in vehicle, you know, 2012, so it is eight years old. But that's still in the, and my, my thinking and with that low mileage, really not that old but nonetheless, you know, it's plastic. We run into it. We talk about this a lot on our podcast, a variety of vehicles, to be fair to Land Rover and Range Rover.
Mark: So what's involved with, with this repair?
Bernie: So this repair, so this is a non supercharged model. What was involved is removing the intake manifold, and from there we were able to access all the…and I'm actually show some pictures right now.
We're actually able to access the coolant pipe and do the repairs. So once that's off, the repair's much simpler to do. Impossible with the intake manifold. Here's a, basically a view of the engine compartment with the intake manifold removed. These are the intake ports into the engine. This is another coolant hose, we changed that which runs under the intake manifold. Kind of makes sense to change at the same time. This is a rubber hose, but these do fail usually when the vehicle gets older. But make sense to do it while this is out, because you know, if all is done well, this won't need to be removed again for another eight years or so.
We'll have a look at some other pictures here. So again, here's another, another view, looking more straight down in the engine compartment and you can see the assembly here. There's a crack somewhere in here. I'm not certain exactly where it is, but you can see this orange colour down here. That's the antifreeze, the coolant that they use in these vehicles. And a view of the new part held down by a couple of bolts and everything, pieces clip in, some hose clamps, other items just just fit together with clips and pop together. So that's our picture show for today.
Mark: Are there any more durable replacement parts available for this repair?
Bernie: It's a good question, for Land Rover, no. There we basically need to replace everything with the same type of plastic material that was there before, unfortunately. But for certain cars, like BMWs use a lot of plastic components and they have replacements on certain models where you can actually buy a metal, say a metal thermostat housing. Or water inlets are available in metal, which is a really good option because they won't fail again. I mean, the gasket may, the gasket, that part of it may seep or leak, but certainly, the housing itself won't fail. And a lot of times the problem comes from a housing failure. So unfortunately for Land Rover, Range Rover, we're pretty, well pretty much stuck with the plastic. But you know, and other models that we work on, there are options available and we do use them whenever we can.
Mark: We're not really showing it, but there's actually a lot of part removal to get to be able to take the intake manifold off on these vehicles. Is that, am I assuming right there?
Bernie: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's quite a few hours worth of work just to change this pipe. I just showed pictures of the easy stuff and not with the, not with the manifold on, but there's, you know, it certainly takes a little while to remove that manifold, get it out of the way and then change all of the pipes and hoses. So you know, when, after that, of course, then it's a matter of bleeding the cooling system out. You've got to remove all the air from the system and with a lot of modern cooling systems there I mean, it's always been an issue in every car since I, you know, as long as I've worked on cars, getting air out of cooling system.
But it can be even more complicated on modern vehicles because they have many hoses, many passageways and little nooks and crannies where air can hide and cause the engine to overheat. So we actually have special filling equipment, which is pretty awesome. It actually vacuums the cooling system and sucks everything in. So it really speeds up the whole process. But it, you know, again, that's kind of an involved part of the procedure.
Mark: So this is a non-super charged engine. What, is it a better engine than the supercharge variety?
Bernie: Well, it depends. It certainly doesn't have more horsepower, which is, I mean, which is a nice feature with the supercharge engine. I mean the supercharge engine really goes fast, which is pretty awesome and nice immediate power. But I tend to find these engines are probably a little more durable. We haven't done a timing chain on one of these non supercharged engines yet. I say yet, because it probably happened, but I think it was a supercharger it really, you know, the engine speeds up. The internal acceleration in the engine is so quick when you throttle it, the timing chains are, are an issue in these vehicles. And I think they, you know, there's the supercharger, they, they weren't really built tough enough to handle that. So, I'd say, you know, overall, and of course a supercharger is an expensive item in and of itself, on top of the engine. So with a non-super charge engine, you immediately don't have that. So I think, I think you'd probably get a little more durability out of the non-super charged, but less little less thrills.
Mark: So there you go. If you're looking for a service for your Range Rover in Vancouver, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead because they're always busy. Check out the website at pawlikautomotive.com, hundreds, over 600 articles on there about all makes and models and all types of repairs. Of course, there's the YouTube channel Pawlik Auto Repair where we have, again, hundreds of videos again on all makes and models and repairs. And of course, thanks for much for watching or listening to the podcast. We really appreciate it. Give us a like on iTunes or Spotify and thanks Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark. And thanks for watching.
Mark: Hi. It's Mark Bossert here from Top Local. We're here with Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver, Vancouver's best auto service experience and 21-time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver, and we're talking cars. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: We're talking about a Range Rover 2006 variant with a coolant pipe replacement problem. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: This vehicle came to our shop with a, it was overheating and had a coolant leak.
Mark: What testing did you need to do to find the leak?
Bernie: In this case, I mean, the first place we always start with a coolant leak is a pressure test and topping up the coolant, of course, and if it starts just gushing out, then we know something is really severe, but if it doesn't, the pressure test is the next step, so that's what we did.
What a pressure test does is it puts the cooling system under pressure that you would normally experienced when an engine is running. The engine cooling systems have a pressurized cap. Pressure builds up in the system. If you have pressure, you can... The engine can run hotter and you don't lose your coolant, so it's an important thing, so we put the cooling system under pressure like you normally have when the engine is running and, that way, we can find out where the leak is coming from.
Mark: What did you find?
Bernie: We found a coolant pipe located on the back of the thermostat housing. It goes between the thermostat housing and the... basically the engine block, and that was leaking. It's a plastic part. I said it before. We love plastic. I mean, unfortunately, because it wears out, they could probably make it out of metal, but they make it out of plastic to save weight and, eventually, it does wear out. Although, in all fairness, this vehicle is now 13, 14 years old, 13 years old, so it's had a pretty good life.
Mark: Is this a common failure part?
Bernie: Yeah, it is. It is because the plastic deteriorates over time. I'm going to share a few pictures while we're at it here, so there's our 2006 vintage Range Rovers, still a very good looking vehicle, say, 13 years past. It still looks great.
Here's our pipe. This is the new piece. This is the old one, and you can see a chunk of corner missing off of here, and what happens is, over time, with heat cycling and heating and cooling, eventually the plastic becomes brittle and it eventually cracks and breaks. It's not under any physical strain because it's all held in place, but it will, it does break over time just from the heat cycling, and so... and you were is this a difficult part to replace? Is that correct?
Bernie: Yeah, so this is where the pipe is located. This is where things get difficult, because the intake manifold sits right in this area here, right over the top of the edge of this pipe, so the pipe that'd broken in that you saw was sitting right here, bolts down here, and then these are intake manifold ports of the front two cylinders. It's a V8 engine, so it blocks over here, so there's a fair bit that needs to be removed to access to this piece.
Mark: Was there anything else that needed to make this repair?
Bernie: No. Actually, fortunately, this was it. We did do a visual inspection and found that was it. We did flush the cooling system, which is a good thing to do when you have the cooling system apart like this especially if the engines got hot. It's a good thing to do. Other than that, fortunately, it was straightforward.
Mark: Why wouldn't they use metal on this?
Bernie: Yeah, I think a lot of it is weight-saving. Two things, you can more easily mold a plastic piece, so that's one reason, and the second is that it's weight-saving. You can save. When you think about an engine, if you can use plastic parts, you can probably knock 30, 50 pounds off the weight of an engine, and the lighter the engine, the more efficient it is, so, in that respect, it's a good idea. There are parts we've done like certain BMWs, older vintages, where they actually make metal replacement parts for plastic thermostat housings. In this case, this vehicle didn't have such a thing, but I'd expect the plastic to last for another 10, 12 years anyways. It's the same type of part.
Mark: This is a non-supercharged engine, I'm guessing from how easy it was to actually do. Are they more trouble-free?
Bernie: I would say overall they are. I mean, there's less components obviously you've got. You don't have the supercharger, which in and of itself is a very expensive piece. I rarely see failures with the actual supercharger on some newer ones. You'll see. We have videos on the nose cone bearing failing, but, yeah, I mean, this is a simpler engine, and the cooling system is simpler on this vehicle as well.
The supercharge versions have pipes that run underneath the supercharger and intake manifold, which tend to fail and cost a lot more money to replace. They're like a rubber pipe assembly, a pipe and hose assembly, so there's more complexity in that, so, definitely, less to go wrong. You don't get the thrill of the immediate acceleration you do with the supercharge, but these things are more than adequate, a 4.4 litre engine. It's a pretty good engine. I think, around this vintage, I find these engines are actually quite reliable.
Mark: That was my next question. How are Range Rovers for reliability?
Bernie: We have a lot of videos and podcasts on these, so there are issues I'd say. Again, I was saying this is probably one of the more reliable engine models that you'll find around this vintage. The earlier ones, certainly earlier generation engines definitely had a lot more problems with oil leaks and things. These are pretty good for oil leaks. We've done actually a couple of cooling system repairs on this particular vehicle. Hoses tend to fail and pipes after a while, but, overall, I'd say these are pretty reliable, but you've got suspension problems, too, so, if you look through our collection of videos, you'll see some of the things that we see, but they're not bad, but you'll expect to spend a little more money on a Range Rover than you would for your average SUV.
Mark: One of your favourites, in other words.
Bernie: One of our favourites, yeah. They're nice vehicles to own. People like to keep them.
Mark: There you go. If you're looking for service for your Range Rover in Vancouver, British Columbia, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead, they're always busy, or check out their website, pawlikautomotive.com. There's hundreds, literally, of videos and blog posts on there about different makes and models and all kinds of repairs, or our YouTube channel, Pawlik Auto Repair, again, hundreds of videos, all makes and models and types of repairs, and, of course, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We really appreciate it. Feel free to give us a like if you enjoy what we're doing, and thanks, Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark, and thanks for watching.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert, producer of the Pawlik Automotive Podcast. And we're here with Mr. Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver, BC, Canada. And we're talking cars. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: So we're going to talk about the reliability of a storied franchise in the automotive world, Land Rover and Range Rovers. How reliable are Land Rovers and Range Rovers?
Bernie: Yeah, well let's break it down, because that's a pretty big line of cars. Let's break it down into ...
Mark: A lot of years.
Bernie: Yeah, yeah. We'll cover early 2000 up to modern, and of course modern being brand new. However, we don't really have a lot to say about brand new because they're new, and new cars are reliable and anything that needs to be fixed will be done at the dealership level. However we can and we do a maintenance service on brand new vehicles. It's just that anything that needs to be fixed will be sent back. And generally it takes a while for a vehicle to age into seeing what reliability issues are. Three to five years I think, and then after that, other issues tend to crop up. And we're going to be talking, as I said, the line of Land Rover and Range Rover is large. With the Range Rover, we're going to stick with the full size and the sport. And with the Land Rover, it's LR3 and LR4 models. The LR2s and Range Rover Evoques, we'll discuss those another time.
Mark: All right, so we've narrowed it down. Let's start with the engine. What kind of issues do you see with Land Rover, Range Rover engines?
Bernie: Yeah, so as far as engines, first of all, you'll find either a V6 or a V8, mostly V8. So V6's are not super common but they are available. And as some of the newer Range Rovers also have a supercharge V6, as well, which is a nice option because they do tend to be a real fuel consuming vehicle. Heavy, powerful, and then the engines will either be naturally aspirated or supercharged, one of the two.
So as far as reliability, with the supercharge, we see a lot of ... I'll just talk about problems. Supercharger nose cone failures, there's a little coupler in the supercharger nose cone that tends to wear out prematurely, so that's a definite reliability issue. And by the time you hit 100,000 kilometres, 60,000 miles if you're in in the US, that part will tend to fail and need to be replaced.
There's also the other issues, and again, we see this between 2013 ... Sorry, 2010 and 2013 models. Timing chains seem to wear out, mostly on the supercharged models, but they will even ... Yeah, and on the naturally aspirated ones, as well. For a few of those model years, they didn't build the timing chain tensioners substantial enough for that. There's a few pieces, and we have a video on, podcasts on that you can look at. But you generally, if you've owned one of these vehicles long enough, you'll most likely have to replace the timing chains and tensioners on that vehicle.
So those are the two major issues you'll see. Of course, if you don't have a supercharged model, you won't do the nose cone. The other issues we do see on on some other models are cooling system failures, hoses, couplers, small coolant leaks that tend to develop into larger coolant leaks. So those are things to keep an eye on, as well. And of course, if you have your car regularly maintained, you'll be able to pick those things up and fix them and service them. But coolant leaks are probably the bigger issue.
The good news is oil leaks are something we don't see a lot of on these engines. So that used to be something that would happen a lot more in earlier generations, oil Leaks, head gasket problems, and that doesn't seem to be happening in this generation we're talking about, so that's a positive thing.
Mark: How about the transmission and drive train? How are they for reliability?
Bernie: Really reliable. I can't really even think of the last time we ever did a transmission or a differential repair on these models, axle shafts. Everything in that department is really well built, really robust, transfer cases are good. There's a lot of electronic controls on these two and they all tend to work really, they all tend to be pretty reliable. So that's a good thing. And these vehicles, even though most people, at least around these parts, don't take them off road, we do have a few customers who actually do use them out in the bush and they tend to be very reliable and good, tough vehicles. So that part of the vehicle is, I wouldn't say it's bulletproof, but not something we see a lot of problems with.
Mark: What about the brakes system?
Bernie: So the brakes, again, pretty reliable, but they do tend to wear out faster than you might expect. Especially if you look in, you can see into the wheel and you look at a Range Rovers' brake rotor, they're just, they're massive, huge things. You think that with a brake rotor that size and large brake pads, it would dissipate the heat well and last for a long time, but they don't. You're lucky to get 50,000 kilometres out of a set of brake pads and rotors on these vehicles. Maybe a little more in an LR3 and 4, but the Range Rovers, they're heavy, and they tend to go through brakes a little more frequently, and they are expensive. They're not AMG-Mercedes or Aston Martin expensive, but they are a little more money than your average vehicle, just because of the size of the parts.
But the other components, like the calipers, tend to be pretty reliable. We changed the odd one on an older higher mileage model, or something that's been in a bad, rusty climate, but generally the brakes are pretty good. They just tend to wear out, need servicing a little more frequently.
Mark: So I know this next area we've definitely done podcasts about. Steering and suspension.
Bernie: Steering suspension. Yeah, that's an area on these vehicles that definitely tends to need some work.
Let's just talk about the steering. The steering is pretty reliable. We have done the odd rack and pinion, because they do tend to leak after a certain amount of time, but not a really common repair. Tie rod ends tend to be pretty good, but the suspension end of it, there's a lot of things that can go wrong, and do, on these vehicles. So these vehicles all have air suspension. Right away, that's an an added set of issues. The suspension compressors do fail on all of them over time. So the air suspension compressor will go bad, the airbags themselves fail after a time, although we don't do a lot of them, but they do tend to fail. So given long enough, you will end up replacing those air bags.
But we see 10-year-old and even 15-year-old models and they're still intact, so they are fairly durable, but they do fail from time to time. But the big thing on these is control arm bushings. And specific, the lower control arm has a rear bushing that tends to fail on very, I'd say, prematurely there. They tend to go pretty badly, but we've done full control arms on front and back on a lot of these models because they tend to wear out over time. They're all real nice rubber bushings for a nice, smooth ride. But they're not the most robust and durable, so given time, you will replace a lot of control arms on these vehicles to get the bushings fixed up. And how you'll know they're bad, you'll have creaky noises or there'll be a lot of clunks in the suspension, and those tend to develop over time though. That's probably the biggest issue with these that we find.
Mark: What about the body and interior?
Bernie: Generally everything in that department is pretty good. I can't really think of any issues. We don't do body work, but the fit and finish on these vehicles is all really good, high quality. The paints are good.
Interior wise we don't see any things falling apart or busting apart. The power windows tend to keep working for a long time. The door locks, there's a few things we fix here and there, but there's not really any alarming concerns, I'll put it that way.
Mark: And how both the electrical system?
Bernie: Again, electrical system is pretty reliable. With the amount of complexity on this vehicle, they actually tend to be pretty good, though we do change the odd alternator. It's important to keep a good battery in these type of vehicles. Any modern vehicles, especially something that runs the amount of electronics these do, having a good strong battery is an important thing to keep.
And generally batteries last five years, it's about the case with these vehicles, too. But every five years, you should change your battery. But we test them on servicing, and nothing fails prematurely. But electrically speaking, these cars are pretty good, and I know in the past, Land Rovers, Jaguars, had a bad reputation, the Lucas wiring systems. There's a lot of jokes-
Mark: They were a lot of fun.
Bernie: Yes. Yeah, there was a lot of problems, but that's long, ancient history. It's like we're talking about a different kind of car. As much as I do bash Fords now and then, it's probably the best thing that ever happened to Land Rover and Jaguar was that Ford bought them out, because they actually made them into pretty reliable cars, so there's our compliment to Ford.
Mark: So there you go. If you're looking for service in Vancouver, BC, Canada for your Jaguar, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them at (604)-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead, they're busy. Check out the website, pawlikautomotive.com, hundreds of articles and videos on there, or on our YouTube channel, Pawlik Auto Repair. All makes, models, types of repairs, maintenance issues, tips, et cetera. Many years now doing this. And as well, of course, we really appreciate you watching the podcasts and listening and thanks, Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark. Thanks for watching.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert, Producer of The Pawlik Automotive Podcast and Video Series, and of course, we're here with Mr. Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. 38 years maintaining and repairing vehicles in Vancouver, and 20 time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver, including this year, as voted by their customers. How are we doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: Doing well. All of that good news, it's hard not to be happy.
Mark: We're talking about a 2014 Range Rover Sport that had a gear shift head repair. Sounds like a pretty simple process, but I bet it isn't. It's a Range Rover. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: The vehicle, the owner went to shift the gear. There's this little button you press with your index finger and move your gear shift around to park and it wouldn't work. The vehicle is towed in and we had to look at it, and what we found is that the actual knob, the little button was broken.
Mark: What did you do next?
Bernie: We were actually able to... we need to move the vehicle around, we were actually able to just kind of glue the broken plastic piece back together temporarily until we were able to receive the proper part. We did that, at least verified that that's all that was wrong with it, moved the vehicle around, and then we proceeded to repair it once the parts arrived.
Mark: What was involved in the repair?
Bernie: Land Rover sells a kit for this, of course, the part is only available from the dealer. Land Rover sells a repair head kit, which is good. Not very expensive. You can buy a complete shifter, but that's a very expensive repair and very time consuming. This is a pretty straightforward labor-wise repair and parts come in a kit. I'll just get right into the picture show here because this is where it's kind of cool, the parts kit.
We should be looking at a nice black Range Rover Sport model, Supercharged, and there's a picture of the gear shift head, basically what you'd be looking at from the driver's seat. Press that button, of course, the vehicle goes into park, not while you're moving, but when you're sitting still, you push that, the vehicle goes into park. To move it out of park, there is a button... I apologize, the picture is very fuzzy. The camera wouldn't focus that close, but that is the button right there that caused the issue and it was all floppy. You could tell something was wrong. That button must be pushed in order to move it out of park and into the other gears and this is a-
Mark: Sort of like a park lockout, basically.
Bernie: Yeah, it basically locks the vehicle from moving, just like in traditional gear shift where you move it right up to the P position and lock the vehicle. This is also kind of neat. It's illuminated, so there's different colours here depending on which gear you're in. This is the repair in process. This is basically the gear shift head removed. You can see there's a little electronic circuit and quite a few items in here. There's two buttons and switches, but the neat part of this job was the repair... was the parts that we got.
This is the... this came in a nice little boat, a 3 inch by 3 inch box, and when I opened the box up this is what came out in the box. Here's our new switch, that's the park switch, that clips in place, a new, this is ... I wouldn't call it the face plate, but the cover over here, comes with a new screw. And a new face plate with, it's actually attached an adhesive, so it's got new adhesive. But it comes with a little pry bar and then these gloves. These are electrostatic gloves. So it comes with this kit. Like everything's included, I thought this is really neat. This is a sign of a nice, high quality vehicle, and a very thoughtful repair procedure. Obviously I'm guessing in the beginning they may have had a few of these repairs they did where they blew the circuit board from static electricity. It's very easy to generate then where you're doing a repair inside a car. Just slipping across the seat will generate static electricity and sulphur.
Whoever's working on the car, just one little touch of the component you can blow it just with that. So these are static protection gloves. And by the way they were actually too small for my hands. I don't have massive hands, but it took a lot of work to fit those gloves on. They could've made them a little larger. But that's my only complaint.
Mark: So it's a difficult and expensive repair.
Bernie: No, not really. Not saying you should necessarily do it at home, depending on your skill level. It's not a very time consuming repair, and that's a rare feature for a Range Rover since a lot of things are expensive. But this is a, it's a nicely thought out kit to repair an issue that probably, a part that probably shouldn't have broken at this age, but did.
Mark: And the car basically won't move if that lockout won't work.
Bernie: Won't move. It used to be there would be shift lockout buttons and things you can push, and in this case it's all electronic which is the way everything's going, more and more so all the time, things just don't move unless the electronics and electrical items function. Will this is actually a mechanical failure of an electrical part. Everything's got to work like it's supposed to.
Mark: Is this something that you've seen before? Or often in the shop?
Bernie: This is the first repair of this type we've done. But I'd say it's probably fairly common because the parts in stock at the Range Rover dealer, and that always tells me, whenever we have an issue with, if the part's in stock, that means it's a somewhat common item. They don't tend to keep inventory on things that don't move off the shelf at a reasonable pace.
Mark: And what's your overall impression of Range Rover vehicles?
Bernie: I like them a lot. But they are expensive, they're expensive to buy new. They fortunately, if you're looking for a used one, they depreciate very nicely. I'd say fortunately, if you're the buyer, if you're the owner, you'll throw away a lot of money in depreciation, a hell of a lot of money. But they're extremely nice vehicle, in the luxury SUV category. Very popular around Vancouver, many part of the world.
Good vehicle, generally pretty reliable, but there are a few issues, and some of them are ... things like timing change, we discuss a lot among this podcast, that probably shouldn't go so soon. So some things, the build quality on some items isn't perhaps as good as others. But in other areas, they're pretty good. So just expect if you buy one, you'll pay a fair amount of money to repair it, more than you would for an average vehicle.
Mark: And maintenance is of course paramount to keep it running well.
Bernie: Maintenance is very paramount. I mean things, we get people a lot, occasionally with the luxury European cars, and any car, and they neglect to do oil changes and things, and I just shake my head because if you can't afford an oil change or the time to do an oil change, you really can't afford the time to replace the engine. They're just so expensive. So you're really, doing proper maintenance, and service is just key, it just keeps the cost way down.
Mark: So there you go, if you're looking for service for your Range Rover, Land Rover, in Vancouver, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive, you can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. Check out their website, pawlikautomotive.com. Hundred of blog posts on there about repairs of all makes and models of cars. Of course there's our YouTube Channel, Pawlik Auto Repair, again hundreds, over 300 videos on there. And of course thank you so much for listening to the podcast, we appreciate it, thanks Bernie.
Bernie: Thank you Mark, and thanks for watching and listening.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert, producer of the number one automotive podcast in Canada, the Pawlik Automotive Podcast, here with Mr. Bernie Pawlik, and we're talking cars. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: I'm doing very well.
Mark: So 2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged, a little hard to get the engine started, because it was trying to start that to smoke it was tough, was that what was going on?
Bernie: Well actually, it started fine, but what was happening was there was an awful lot of smoke coming out of the tailpipe. And how much smoke, you might ask? There was like a ton. You start the engine, it was just clouds of a white-ish colour smoke just billowing everywhere. It was pretty serious. And my first thought was, "Okay, this engine is done." You know, like it's got a severe ... just my first look at it, the head gasket must be blown somehow, it's just pumping coolant through this thing. Because of the colour of the smoke, so that was kind of the initial, that was my initial thought on it.
Mark: And how did you diagnose the problem?
Bernie: Well we started, of course, you know, looking at things, removing the spark plugs, looking at the condition of the spark plugs. Pressure testing the cooling system. We actually did a compression test on the engine with the spark plugs out as well. Compression was good, all even all across, which was a good sign for the engine. And the spark plugs didn't have any sort of coolant fouling, so but they definitely looked like things had been running rich, and there was a lot of oiliness on the spark plug. So put the spark plugs back in, fired everything back up and really looked at the smoke again and realized it actually had more of a bluish hue to it than white, even though you know, it was still pretty light colour, but not that typical kind of blue you'd normally see.
But definitely after a while, going, "Okay, it's definitely an oil burning issue, and not a coolant issue." So digging a little further, I mean I'll just cut to the chase. What we found was a crank case breather valve was blown, causing oil to be just sucked into the engine and burnt up, really not a huge problem in the end to fix, but what probably would have led us to diagnose that a lot sooner would have been some code, maybe a check engine light on, and some lean condition codes, which happens in a lot of other European vehicles. But that wasn't the case with this Range Rover.
There was one stored code in the vehicle computer, and it was only a ... it was an Evap system code for a purge valve problem. And the purge valve, like a purge valve probably never cause a smoking issue, and it was kind of, I say a minor code because the check engine light wasn't even on, so it was a code that was kind of stored in the background. So you know, it took a little bit to get to it, but we basically found again, I say we found the purge valve is the issue, so let's ...
Mark: Crank case breather valve.
Bernie: Crank case breather valve. Thank you. I keep confusing that. I always rehearse these podcasts, and think about it, and I keep saying purge valve. Crank case breather valve, thanks Mark.
Mark: So what's involved in replacing that valve?
Bernie: Well it's basically the valve is bolted onto the right valve cover, really not a lot of work to do, it's pretty straight forward. And I'll just get some pictures, we'll have a look. So there's our 20, sorry, 2008 Range Rover Sport. Also behind is another, a 2013 Range Rover Sport, we're doing some other service on, so it looked kind of similar, just a little subtly different. So as far as the vehicle, so there's the purge valve, this is the piece that was defective.
Mark: Crank case breather valve.
Bernie: Crank case breather valve, thank you Mark. I'm glad I got you here today. There's the Crank Case Breather Valve located in the right valve, of course. This is the new unit put in. This is the hose that actually goes to the back of the intake system, where the fumes that come out of the crank case are sucked in. And that's the new valve, which is basically bolted into the right valve cover. And after of course, I'm most curious to see what happened with the part, why it failed. So we broke the top of the valve off, and this is basically, there's a large rubber diaphragm. Underneath it, there's a little valve and a spring.
And there you can see a tear in the diaphragm, and this is where the oil is being sucked through the valve and into the engine. So that tear should not be there, it just basically happens from old age, there's a lot of ... crank case fumes are very toxic, it's obviously a very special rubber, but they don't last forever, so 11 years was about all this one got.
Mark: So is this the same piece as a PCV? Or PC valve?
Bernie: PCV valve? Yeah. PCV stands for Positive Crank Case Ventilation Valve. And it's basically essentially the same thing, although I tend to think of the more old traditional type you'd find on American V8 engine, or a lot of four cylinder Japanese type vehicles, where it would be just a little cylindrical valve, about the diameter of a large vacuum, it would clip into the valve cover. And some engines still use a valve of similar type, but it's basically the same thing. For some reason, a lot of European vehicles use these large diaphragm breather valves. And these actually tend to fail more frequently, like the old PCV valves would tend to carbon up and sludge up over time. And you'd actually have restricted breathing, whereas these ones here, they just tend to rip after time, and cause other issues like lean condition codes and blue smoke burning.
Mark: So why does the crank case need to breathe?
Bernie: Okay, so when, in an internal combustion engine, when it's running, of course there's an explosion in every cylinder, every piston. And with that, every time that explosion happens, 99% of the exhaust goes out the exhaust valve, the waste products of the explosion. But some of it escapes past the piston rings, it can't be sealed 100%. And that gas that escapes past the piston rings is called breathe blow by gases. Now if you were to have an engine completely sealed, that engine would probably run for 30 seconds, and then you know, explode due to the pressure. So in the olden days, going back, many decades, there would be a road draft tube. And this road draft tube would basically be a breather tube, and those blow by gases would just breathe out onto the road and into the atmosphere.
Think about those gases, they're about the worst pollutants generated in a combustion engine. They're just horrific, you know, the polluting gases are just the worst. So when they started developing emissions equipment on vehicles, the first thing they developed was a breathing system called a PCV system. Positive Crank Case Ventilation, where it would actually suck those vapours back into the engine and re burn them again, and essentially clean things up. So that was a huge step forward in vehicle emission reduction and really, really good for the environment for smog removal. Started in California, you know, way back in the 60s and then just eventually every car has it. And they've just gotten more and more sophisticated on a lot of European vehicles. But that's basically what the system does.
Mark: And was there anything else that you replaced on this vehicle?
Bernie: Yeah, so on this Range Rover, like I mentioned earlier when we were diagnosing it, we looked at the spark plugs, they were quite fouled from all the oil that had been sucked through the engine, so we replaced the spark plugs, and it was also due for basically an A service, maintenance service so we did an oil change and filter, and yeah, everything ran really well. The owner was really happy with it. No more smoke coming out the tailpipe, and really not a huge cost repair, considering when you looked at the smoke earlier.
Mark: Absolutely. So if you're looking for service for your Range Rover in Vancouver, the guys to see are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead, they're busy. Or check out the website, PawlikAutomotive.com, YouTube channel: Pawlik Auto Repair. And of course, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Again, number one automotive podcast in Canada, number one in Korea, varying between one and two in the United Kingdom, and we thank you so much for listening. Thanks, Bernie.
Bernie: Yeah, thanks for listening and watching. And thanks, Mark.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert, Producer of the Pawlik Automotive Podcast. We're here with Mr. Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver. 19-time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver as voted by their customers. And we're talking cars. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: I'm doing well.
Mark: 2013 Range Rover Sport Supercharged has a severe timing chain noise. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: This vehicle arrived at our shop on Monday. Well, I arrived Monday morning and found the vehicle parked outside with a message that was on our voicemail from about 12:30 at night when the vehicle had been dropped off. There was a severe ... The owner said the engine had lost power, severe ... Some noises in the engine and a number of warning lights on on the dash.
Mark: Was this an issue that occurred suddenly?
Bernie: Well, according to the owner, a few months back, we replaced the supercharger nose cone. It was very noisy and he said even since then there was a noise in the engine. I think it was something that had been progressing for a little while, then just got suddenly worse. The issue came along suddenly that they needed to drop it off to fix it. It was good they did and didn't drive it much further, as we'll see soon. Yeah, other than that, I think the noise had been there for a little while.
Mark: How did you start your diagnosis?
Bernie: Well, of course, listening to the engine we could hear there was something pretty severe rattling and didn't want to run it for very long. Ed, who was working on it, popped the oil filler cap and he could see the top of the left timing chain. He said you could actually see a piece of metal in there, which we'll again see in the photograph. He said as soon as he kind of poked down and touched it it dropped down inside the engine, so at that point we knew, "Hey, we can't run this thing. This is like too risky. We gotta pull the timing chain cover off and see what's going on. Something is broken in there."
Mark: How could it have broken apart like that?
Bernie: Well, let's ... Why don't we just look at some pictures and we'll talk about that, because we're still kind of speculating as to what may have happened. Let's get in some pictures here. This is the lower timing chain cover removed. There's a ... It's a pretty large area in the front of the engine, but the lower timing chain, this is a ... You can see the crankshaft here. Here's the two timing chains. This is the right chain, the left chain, and there are of course, tensioner ... There's the tensioner. This is the guide ... This is the tensioner lever and this is the guide rail. You'll notice something here. There are actually bolts missing. There's no bolt here, no bolt there. We didn't remove them. You can see this guide rail here has a bolt.
This is what happened. These bolts came apart and there was also ... In behind here, and you'll see a better picture of this later, there's an oil jet that sprays oil right on ... Directly on the timing chain and the gears. There's a piece that actually sticks around and points here, and that piece is completely gone in this picture.
Mark: Not to get too pedantic here, but the timing chain basically ties the camshaft together with the crankshaft so that the valves open at the right time when the pistons are up towards the top of their stroke.
Bernie: It does, exactly, and of course, it's critical that these move in exactly the right time because pistons and valves, the clearance is very tight. If the timing goes out, pistons and valves will hit and cause basically ... It basically destroys the engine. For all intents and purposes at this point you'd either have to rebuild it ... Excuse me ... Replace it with a new one or get a good used engine. Those would be the options had that occurred, and it could very well easily have happened in this case.
Let's just get into a few other pictures here. This is just some of the damage. This piece had been floating around inside the engine. Actually, I'll show you the piece in a minute, but this is just where stuff ... Metal had been banging around on the cylinder head. These are some of the other pieces we took out. This is part of that oil jet. You can see it's been scraped, bent, twisted. This piece is folded over completely. Broken bolts. These were the bolts that were in place where the timing chain guide was.
This picture here, this was the cover. You can see where the bolts have been. The arrows point ... These bolts have been rubbing for quite a while on the cover, so as the chain runs of course there's a lot of rattle and force and movement, so it's been banging around and almost wore holes through this cover, but it's still in good shape. It's just a ... It's a chunk of metal so really wouldn't be damaged. A little more wear and there'd be a hole in it, but at this point it's okay.
What else have we got here that's good to look at? There's our ... This is after the chain was removed. This is how the ... This is the damage on the front of the engine. This one here, the bolt's pretty much sheared off and the actual surface here is good. This, as you can see, the bolt has broken off quite a far ways in and what's left of it, and a lot of damage around this area. What was a flat surface like this where the bolt shoulder would rest has now been completely damaged. We have ways of repairing that, which we did, all these pieces. It's been a work. Stuff you really don't want to have to do, but it does need to be done. One more shot, just some of the damage from the guide ... Or sorry, the oil jet that was flailing around and banging against the chain and scraping.
There's a lot of bad noises going on. I guess we could probably get to the picture just showing the completed job where everything's back together. Again, here's the chains, guides bolted back in. Here's that jet that we ... That I mentioned earlier. You can see there's a whole arm here that comes around and twists around and that piece was of course mangled and bent and twisted. There was this piece left, but this one was nowhere to be found. Part of this jet here bolts up underneath this particular piece here, so somehow these bolts came loose. We don't know why or how, but they did and that's sort of what caused everything to go bad.
Mark: We'll go back to, how would those bolts ... Would they just work themselves loose? Was it a bad repair job in the past? Any clues?
Bernie: We're not really sure. It's possible that this timing chain could have been replaced in the past. I haven't had a chance to quiz the owner on it. He hadn't mentioned it and it is ... The vehicle's about 100,000 kilometres, which is sort of where we normally find the chains start to rattle. The 2010 to 2012 for certain have a lot of issues with the timing chains because the ... I've shown this in a previous ... We have a previous podcast on this ... The tensioner, the plunger of the tensioner and the guide rail are kind of substandard in size. They should have been made bigger, and so they tend to wear out and cause the chain to start rattling.
This had the updated type in it, so it may be either one of two things. Either someone had done the repair and not tightened the bolts properly, or B, it just wasn't ... It just somehow from the factory it wasn't tightened properly and it came loose. That's not usually something you see. Engines are manufactured really well, but it's something that can happen.
Mark: With all those chunks of metal floating around in there, I imagine it could have been pretty catastrophic.
Bernie: Oh yeah. I'd say by the Grace of God or a miracle or good luck, whatever you want to call it, that chunk of metal did not go actually between the chain and the gears, because had it done that, that would have been very easy for that to happen. It would have definitely jammed up the chain in the engine and it would have ... It would have been in one big boom destroying the engine. Pistons and valves would have collided and the repair bill would have been substantially higher.
Mark: I'm assuming the repair was just getting all these parts back in proper order and retiming everything and making sure it's back into good condition?
Bernie: Yeah. I mean, essentially the job was the same as any normal timing chain job we would do on one of these engines other than we had to repair those bolt phalanges that were broken and of course replace that jet, which we don't normally do when the timing chain's rattling. Other than that, it was basically the same level of work.
Mark: Anything that the owner could have done to possibly prepare for this? Or not had this happen? Maybe be as catastrophic or dangerous as it was?
Bernie: Well, yeah, I mean, I think the lesson to be learned out of this is when you hear a noise in your engine, especially a rattle noise, it's critical to have it looked at and fixed right away. Now, I say ... I mean, the repair bill for this job is not really gonna be much more ... A little more than it would have been if we'd addressed it earlier, but had it driven even a little further or just ... It could have already had that piece fall off and break and jump ... Go into the chain. It really ... The preventative maintenance here ... We often have this ... J.D. Power and Associates today ... Study saying it's 46% cheaper to maintain your car and fix things before they're broken, but I'm starting to see in a lot of cases it's actually hundreds of percent cheaper some of the time to fix things. When you hear a little noise, fix it, because this job would have been triple the cost had the engine failed, or more.
Mark: Again, we'll talk about Range Rover Sport Supercharged. This is a pretty high-performance vehicle. How are they for reliability?
Bernie: Pretty good. We talk about some of the timing chain noises. It seems these Supercharger nose cones are an issue on pretty well all of them, including Jaguars with the same engine. Other than that, the cars, they're pretty good. There's lots on them to go wrong and over the years the suspension compressors go bad. Those are things we see on Range Rovers. I haven't really done too many on these models yet, but they're at the age where we'll probably start seeing them and be doing them.
Overall, pretty good. I think they seem to get better and better as time goes by, but these timing chain issues with these are a little bit of a ... I'd say disappointment. I mean, it's work for us. That's a good thing, because we never complain about that, but from an owner's perspective, it's a little annoying having to do that, a timing chain at such a young age.
Mark: Well, it's a high-performance, ultra-luxury vehicle that has a lot of things that are very convenient and very comfortable, but also very expensive to fix.
Bernie: Exactly, exactly. That's right, and I just think about brakes, too, on these things. I mean, they tend to wear pretty fast. They have massive, enormous brakes, but there's a lot of vehicle to stop and performance ... Things just tend to wear out and ... Great vehicle and good used buy. They tend to depreciate quite well, so that's a good thing if you're looking for a good luxury used vehicle, but you will spend a fair bit of money fixing it.
Mark: There you go. If you're needing any kind of service on your Range Rover in Vancouver, the guys to see, the experts in Vancouver are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead, they're busy. Or check out the website, pawlikautomotive.com. Hundreds of articles, videos on there. Literally hundreds. As well, our YouTube Channel. Eight years almost of videos on there of all makes and models of cars and repairs. Of course, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Thank you, Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark. I was just thinking maybe one ... Pretty soon we'll be saying there's thousands of videos on there at the rate we're going, so it's kind of exciting. Anyway, thanks for watching. Thanks, Mark.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert. We're here with Mr Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive, and we're talking cars. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: As we do this next version of our podcast, we're talking about a 2013 Land Rover LR2 that had a bizarre kind of a thing, a PCM reflash. What is a PCM reflash?
Bernie: A PCM reflash, well, I'll break the words down. A PCM is the powertrain, short for the powertrain control module, and that module you'll find that on any vehicle. The powertrain control module controls the engine and transmission. Once upon a time when computers were in their earlier generation, there would be an ECM which is an engine control module, and then they'd have a TCM, a transmission control module. They finally integrated it all into one because it kind of worked nicely as a package. The powertrain control module takes care of all that.
Plus, it gets inputs and signals from the body control module and processes it all to keep the engine and transmission running in an optimum way. A reflash is basically a reprogramming of the vehicle computer. These computers have a flashable memory, and they can be reprogrammed. At one time, again, we're going back over 20 years now, vehicle computers had the memory basically programmed in when you bought the computer, were just set for the vehicle.
The manufacturers, as computer technology got more complex in cars and the engine management systems got more complex, they realized they needed to be reprogrammed from time to time. It was a helpful thing. I'll just take General Motors, for example, they have one computer that fits in, say, I don't know, 2000 General Motors vehicle. They have one computer that'll fit in almost every model of vehicle. The difference is the way the programs reflash or the way it's flashed.
It'll be for a Cavalier with a four-cylinder engine it'll have a flash programming, for a Suburban with a V8 at a certain size it'll have a certain other kind of programming. That's a good way to keep the costs of the computers down, and you can program it. Now, reflashing is something that can be done after the fact where the manufacturer realized, "Hey, we need to make a change here so that you can reflash or reprogram." Short, simple explanation there.
Mark: Why did this vehicle need a PCM reflash?
Bernie: What happened with this vehicle, and we actually featured this vehicle in a podcast a month or two back where we replaced a camshaft actuator gear that was worn out. When the owner originally brought the vehicle to us, it had several trouble codes stored and the check engine light on. The one thing we addressed and fixed back then was the camshaft gear issue.
Since we did that, the owner had noticed the engine seemed to idle a bit rough. The check engine light kept coming back on, so we did a couple of other repairs to address that but still that rough idle persisted and the check engine light still kept coming on for a lean condition code and an EVAP code. Now, as I mentioned, we repaired a few parts and items but we were never able to get rid of the lean code and that rough idle was still present.
We weren't sure whether an engine mount was causing it. It was just a subtle shake, but, nonetheless, annoying for the owner. We figured at that point where we'd done every repair and verified everything we'd done that it was time to look and see if the vehicle could be reflashed, the computer program could be reflashed. That can be a likely cause of things like persistent check engine lights. When everything else is done and fixed to spec and it still won't perform properly, often a reflash is required. That's what we did.
Mark: Did it solve the concern?
Bernie: About a week and a half later we called the owner. He said it definitely runs a lot better. The check engine light did come on once, and he has a code reader. He switched it back off and it hasn't come back on since. I'd say we're pretty much, I mean we definitely solved most of the issues with it. There could be some other underlying problem, but he's definitely happier, much happier with the way it runs.
Mark: As technicians, how do you guys know when to reprogram the vehicle's computer?
Bernie: That's a good point. I just explained the circumstances of this vehicle, and that was a good example. Other vehicles sometimes a check engine light will be on, or there'll be a certain drivability symptom, and there'll be a technical service bulletin by the manufacturer suggesting reflash the vehicle computer. Those are ways we know. Otherwise, most vehicles built in the last 15 years will, or, well, last 10/15 years probably need to be reflashed if they have never been done.
The manufacturers are always looking at issues and creating new reflash files. Again, it's one of those things of if it ain't broke don't fix it. Is that the word?
Bernie: Sometimes if the vehicle's performing really well, it may not be necessary. With a computerized vehicle, you never know what performance, gas mileage that you might be missing, because the computer just takes care of things, so that it could actually be an improvement. I'd say most vehicles, that probably is the case.
Mark: When you guys are doing this, just to be clear about it from an electronics procedural viewpoint, you're downloading a file that you then upload into the computer to reprogram the EPROM in the actual vehicle computer, is that right?
Bernie: That is exactly we do. It basically just wipes out the original programming and puts the new one in. We download it from the manufacturer, directly from their website.
Mark: Is there a simple way for you to tell if the vehicle's PCM needs to be reflashed?
Bernie: Well, there's not really a simple way. You have to actually have the flash files, the program set up, and load into the vehicle computer. Then from there it'll actually tell you there's a reflash available for this vehicle. It's a bit of an upfront cost for the customer, because we have to commit ourselves to doing it once we buy the file. Then we access the vehicle computer, go through everything, and it'll tell us, "Yes, there's a reflash available."
Fortunately 95% of the time that's exactly what we find. Same with this Land Rover. It reads through the programming file and said, "There's an update for this vehicle," which we knew we were on the right track to at least creating some kind of performance improvement on the vehicle doing this. That's really the only way we can tell is basically just to get into the vehicle and do it.
Mark: Can you maybe just go step-by-step, once you've decided you're going to do that, what's the procedure to reflash the PCM?
Bernie: The procedure, we basically hook up our computer. For every manufacturer, we have to have their software system. For a lot of manufacturers we have that set in our computers already, and then we plug into the computer. We go onto their website. We buy the flash files, or the access to programming, and then from there we access the vehicle computer. Download the file, if I'm using the right word. Is it upload? No. Download the file to our computer and then perform the reflash procedure the way their software system works.
The neat thing about Land Rover, and I can actually get into sharing a few photos here. What I was going to say about Land Rover that's fantastic is their software system is actually a complete OEM system. Some manufacturers will only allow us to access the PCM or transmission control module, depending on what it has, to reprogram the vehicle. Land Rover's fantastic and Jaguar as well. This is that exact OEM software.
If you go to the Jaguar dealer, this is exactly the same equipment that they use. We have access to that. Probably better than 50% of manufacturers when you go in to do this procedure give, also, when we buy the software or the access, which we can subscribe to on a day basis or a couple of days, or months, or a year depending on what we want to spend and the cars we work on. This allows us to actually use OEM diagnostic software which is fantastic.
This is boring, but this is just basically a picture of after we reprogram the computer. Tells us software information and that the programming was done successfully. As I mentioned, this is OEM manufacturer software. The other thing we're able to do, can you see this okay, Mark?
Bernie: This allows us to run, again, manufacturer-specific tests. We have other really good scan tools in our shop that will do these kind of tests, but the nice thing about this is this is directly the manufacturer's made software. We know the test has run 100%. There was a code for an EVAP system fault that he'd had previously, and we did replace the EVAP canister. After that I reran the test, and you can see here, "Test passed. Tight system. Fault free."
From the manufacturer's test that there's no leaks in this EVAP system, which is a really good thing to verify.
Mark: Kind of touched on this earlier, but is there any times that it would not be a good idea to reflash even though it seems like you're saying that most cars could benefit from reflashing?
Bernie: The one area I'm a little bit cautious with is that once you reflash the computer, you can't go back to the old file. I can cite one circumstance that sticks in memory. I had a client who bought a brand new Ford F-350, 6.4 litre diesel. I think it was a 2008 or '09. Bought the truck. It was great. Had the great gas mileage you expect out of a diesel. Ford called him back in, "Hey, we need to reflash this computer." They reflashed the computer, did whatever they did, and the gas mileage dropped in half from 16 miles a gallon to 8. He was pretty pissed, as you can well imagine.
The reason, they had to do an emission reprogramming on the vehicle, which is why people remove the emission equipment off these vehicles because the gas mileage just drops in half. I don't know how you actually keep the air cleaner by burning twice as much fuel, but we can argue about that another time. Nonetheless, this is one circumstance where doing a reflash can have negative consequences and you can't go back. That's why we're a little cautious.
Normally, I mean in any reflash we've ever done in our shop it's always been positive.
Mark: Any last thoughts about this service?
Bernie: It's good. I don't think there's anything else. When I wrote the script, I'm thinking, "What else do I have to say?" I think we've covered it all. It's, again, just part of a good maintenance program on a vehicle to have the computer files checked every once in a while, maybe every couple of years. If you're not certain, it's a good idea to do it. You never know what the performance benefits will be. As I mentioned, once you do it there's no going back.
Bernie: Manufacturers normally don't do it unless there's a positive reason. I'd say for the most part if you come to our shop, ask us, we can talk to you more about it.
Mark: There you go. If you're looking for service for your Land Rover or you need a PCM reflash because of particular issues that you might be experiencing, the guys to see in Vancouver are Pawlik Automotive. You can reach them 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to call and book ahead. They're really busy. If you're in Vancouver, please call. If you're not in Vancouver, please call your local service advisor. They can't diagnose your problems over the phone. It's not in integrity to do that. We have to be able to see your vehicle.
As well, we have a vast library on YouTube. Check us out at Pawlik Auto Repair, and on the website, pawlikautomotive.com. Thank you so much for listening to the podcasts. Thanks Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks Mark, and thanks for watching. We really appreciate it.
Mark: Hi, it's Mark Bossert, producer of the Pawlik Automotive Podcast. We're here with Mr. Bernie Pawlik, Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver, 19 time winners of Best Auto Repair in Vancouver, as voted by their customers. How are you doing this morning, Bernie?
Bernie: Doing very well.
Mark: So we're talking about a Range Rover. We're going to England, and why did I have a German accent? We're going to talk about a 2006 Range Rover Sport Supercharged, quite a high performance vehicle, that had a lot of coolant leaks. What was going on with this vehicle?
Bernie: Well, the vehicle was originally brought to our shop, the client's concern was that the heat wasn't working properly inside the vehicle cabin. And especially it was noticeable that the driver's side was colder than the passenger side. So the first step in any heating system diagnosis, or one of the first steps is to see what the ... check the coolant level. We inspected the coolant level, found it was low, performed a pressure test on the cooling system, we found several leaks. So fixing that first was the key item.
One item we found that was leaking was the radiator, also the water pump had a leak and there was possibly some leakage coming from under the intake manifold. It was hard to determine between that and the water pump, where that was coming from. Because there's a number of, so many components that are ... things cover up each other, that it's hard to see things sometimes without disassembly. But that's what we found on our initial test.
Mark: So how do you spot all the leaks when there's so many like that?
Bernie: Well, I mean the radiator's located at the front, on the rad support in the front of the engine, so that's pretty distinct and you can see those kind of areas. The water pump, you can see, again, the area where the coolant's leaking. This is where coolant leaks sometimes get a little tricky to diagnose, especially on modern vehicles, where there's so many hoses and pipes and connections and things are buried. A lot of times we go on experience of, this is a common failed part. Or you actually have to start disassembling things to find out where the leaks are coming from. But on this one, we could see the water pump. They have a weep hole in the pump. You could see that was leaking.
None of these were gusher leaks, but there were enough that there was drips and consistent coolant coming out that needed to be repaired.
Mark: A lot of work, basically.
Bernie: A lot of work, yeah, absolutely. They don't make them easy on these vehicles. They're nice and like you said, high performance. To me that's often synonymous, on a modern vehicle, with lots of extra work.
Mark: So what's involved in replacing all those, and fixing all the leaks and replacing hoses that were leaking?
Bernie: The radiator of course is, I'd say, a simple remove the radiator and replace it. It's nothing simple on this vehicle. There's a lot of components that need to be removed, little flaps and guides that angle the air through the radiator. It's connected up to the AC condenser. Like, not actually connected, but bolted in that area. It just takes a lot of fiddling to get it in and out, not an easy job. Once that's out, of course, a water pump is not so difficult, because it's easier to access on the engine. But the real kicker of the job was, what we found is there's a hose assembly underneath the supercharger that was leaking, something we find from time to time and repair. And that was probably the major piece of work that needed to be done. I'll just show a picture of that, while we're at it. You can see this okay?
Bernie: Look at the centre. So it's a V8 engine. We're looking at the centre in the engine, this is the valley area of the engine. And these are the intercoolers for the supercharger. The superchargers sits in the middle here, where my mouse pointer's moving around. That's been removed. You can see some hoses down here. There's one, two, nice and shiny. These are the new hoses. And these were leaking underneath the intake valley. The hose's complex, it goes to a number of different areas. Unfortunately, this picture's a little dark in the back, but as you can see, the hose starts way up front here, moves around, it goes to the back and splits off into several pieces.
Mark: So as the engineers try and route these complicated engines, route all the different pieces around, they've decided that they would put it under the supercharger? And how often does a hose like this fail?
Bernie: Well, this is not an uncommon repair for us at our shop. As the vehicle gets older, of course, these hoses are rubber, they're subject to a lot of heat, a lot of heat, sitting in this area here. So it's not the smartest design, in my opinion. It would have been better to use metal piping, perhaps a little hose here, metal pipe running back. Same with this one here, it could have been done with a metal pipe, and then put the rubber ends at the back. Or even just trying to minimize the amount of rubber would have been a smart idea. But they did it the way they did it, and we have to repair it however it's done. But certainly not the wisest idea.
Mark: Are they failing basically because of the heat cycling that's taking place underneath the engine like that?
Bernie: Yeah, I think that's a major cause. There's also some quick connect ends and pieces that can fail as well, on this and other hoses of these types of designs. But really, the heat is the biggest issue that causes these hoses to fail. In all fairness, the vehicle is, what, it's '06, it's 12 years old. That's a pretty good run, but there are ... My son recently bought a 1984 Toyota Celica and it has some original heater hoses on it. That's a much longer run of a car. But these aren't buried underneath anything, they're just kind of out in the elements. But good quality hoses and they're still lasting and they'll probably last ... they may last for another 10 or 20 years.
Mark: Yeah, the heater hoses already ... Anything that's dealing with moving fluid around in the vehicle's going to be really hot on the inside, but also then, they add the extra level of ... they're running on top of the cylinders, so they're really hot on the outside as well, basically.
Bernie: Yeah, exactly. I can't say that there's anything wrong with the quality of this hose. When we were talking, I was thinking about a ... Way back, I used to have some clients with Hyundai Ponys, if anyone knows what that is. It's a piece of crap car, cheap. I mean it was as cheap as cheap could be. One thing I noticed about those cars is, one way they made them cheap is to use very bad quality hose. After probably five years of usage on these hoses, they were as hard as rocks. And you could take the hose and literally grab it and break it with your hand. So we'd replace those hoses on those cars a lot. And I noticed this was like a differentiating factor. You take a Toyota, 20, 30 years later, you've still got a lot of original hoses. You take a Hyundai Pony, a cheap car, five, six years, the hoses don't even last. That's where they save money on certain things.
So on the Range Rover, to diagnose, could they have made the hose tougher? Yes, but probably metal piping would have been better. But this is what we fix.
Mark: So how did the vehicle work after all of these repairs?
Bernie: The cooling system was great, but the heating system still had an issue. It was still not quite as hot on the driver's side as the passenger. So there'll be more to do. But there was, as you can imagine, quite a substantial amount of work and a bill and the owner needed the vehicle back. So we'll be tackling it for round two, probably a blend door issue inside the heating box, which is in and of itself going to be quite a job. But the most important thing with a heating system concern is making sure the cooling system is in good shape and delivering the right amount of fluid, coolant to the heater cores. Because without that, of course, you can fix all the other things and go, "Oh, it's still not fixed." And the risk is with the coolant leak, you can wreck your engine.
Mark: So we talk about Land Rovers fairly frequently. And this is a 4.2 lite supercharged engine. How is it for reliability?
Bernie: I like these engines. They're pretty good. They don't have a lot of problems compared to some other, like previous generation engines. The four litres, some of the BMW engines they've put in these were horrible. And some of the newer ones, of course, are nicer, but the five litre, the 2010-12, the timing chains go prematurely, the supercharger nosecone wears out, a lot of premature wear on those things. These engines seem to be pretty durable. This coolant hose is one of the bigger things we fix on them. And this vehicle's now 12 years old, so it's fair to have some repairs.
Mark: So there you go. If you're looking for service for your Range Rover or Land Rover in Vancouver, the guys to see, they're experts, are Pawlik Automotive in Vancouver. You can reach them at 604-327-7112 to book your appointment. You have to book ahead. They're busy. Or check out the website, pawlikautomotive.com. YouTube, got hundreds of videos on there, including many about Range Rovers and Land Rovers and all sorts of different kinds of repairs and maintenance issues as well. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast and thank you, Bernie.
Bernie: Thanks, Mark and thanks for listening, thanks for watching. We really appreciate it.